Blackjack Card Counting

tcarpenter · #1 (**permalink**) 08-03-2011, 09:49 AM

I just thought that this would be an interesting topic discussion - what are your thoughts on card counting? Do you think it's worthwhile or not? Do-able with less decks or when playing live casino?

tcarpenter · #2 (**permalink**) 08-09-2011, 07:00 AM

hello tcarpenter...lol..

AKAworceracs · #3 (**permalink**) 12-19-2011, 07:34 PM

it only gets u like a 2% advantage overall, and thats if u do it to perfection.

eejit101 · #4 (**permalink**) 12-21-2011, 08:12 AM

Q - Does it work?
A - Yes. That's why they dont allow it.

Q - Is it legal?
A - Yes.

Q - Can you get away with it.
A - Yes, to a certain extent. If you change your bets dramatically, when the cart are +12 or better, the dealer/floor/pit/cameras will count the deck with you, so they will know.

Q - Is it still possible?
A - Maybe. In the UK, we have automatic shufflers now, so at least 7 decks are being constantly shuffled, so not really. In Vegas, im pretty sure they still hand shuffle a lot, so counting is easy enough.

Q - Is it hard?
A - Yes. I tried to do it once, I good at math, probability, odds, percentages, and studied maths. And i messed up a few times.

Summary - Dont bother, it wont make you rich.

AKAworceracs · #5 (**permalink**) 12-21-2011, 12:51 PM

i do it, on the riverboats around here... they use 6 decks, and have automatic shufflers... it wont make u rich, but unless u sit down w the table max and can do it to perfection, its not really much of an advantage... I have made more on BJ plus 3. the plus 3 supposedly hits 1 out of 11 and the payoff is 1 to 9, so if i go 15 hands w out seeing it, i start playing it.

the card counting has to be in teams, to control all the table action, and to control the varience, cuz just because there more 10s n the deck, doesnt mean u automatically win... and im pretty sure I saw one team here like a yr ago, they got kicked out but walked away w had to be more than 20k, I heard rumors about 50k.

eejit101 · #6 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by AKAworceracs

i do it, on the riverboats around here... they use 6 decks, and have automatic shufflers... it wont make u rich, but unless u sit down w the table max and can do it to perfection, its not really much of an advantage... I have made more on BJ plus 3. the plus 3 supposedly hits 1 out of 11 and the payoff is 1 to 9, so if i go 15 hands w out seeing it, i start playing it.

the card counting has to be in teams, to control all the table action, and to control the varience, cuz just because there more 10s n the deck, doesnt mean u automatically win... and im pretty sure I saw one team here like a yr ago, they got kicked out but walked away w had to be more than 20k, I heard rumors about 50k.

The bold is the daftest thing I have ever read. Probability is just that. Just because you have not seen it doesnt mean you will. You have the same % chance each hand.

As for the card counting with automatic shufflers.... that defeats the whole point. Unless they dont deal it right, and reshuffle the cards after 2 hands, you literally cant count it.

AKAworceracs · #7 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 04:38 PM

they dont reshuffle after every hand, it would slow the game down and prob half the people wouldnt play anymore... and ya, I have heard that b4, but probablility works w that as well, tech you have the same chances of hitting red or black on the roulette wheel every spin to, but I have still not come across one that has hit red every single spin since it incarnation... every number in the lottery had the same chance of coming out as well, but noone plays the numbers 1-2-3-4-5-6, because that will never happen

and I dont know how u shoot that down but talk about poker math ... just because a flush draw hits 34% of the time, doesnt mean u will see it that much either... just means all the flush draws all over the world throughout time will hit that %... U can miss every single one u go for throughout life tech

eejit101 · #8 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 05:15 PM

Lets break this right down.

Originally Posted by AKAworceracs

they dont reshuffle after every hand, it would slow the game down and prob half the people wouldnt play anymore... and ya, I have heard that b4, but probablility works w that as well, tech you have the same chances of hitting red or black on the roulette wheel every spin to, but I have still not come across one that has hit red every single spin since it incarnation... every number in the lottery had the same chance of coming out as well, but noone plays the numbers 1-2-3-4-5-6, because that will never happen

and I dont know how u shoot that down but talk about poker math ... just because a flush draw hits 34% of the time, doesnt mean u will see it that much either... just means all the flush draws all over the world throughout time will hit that %... U can miss every single one u go for throughout life tech

1 - If they have an automatic shuffler, it does not slow the game down at all. You just place the cards in the chute at the back of the shuffler and it processes them in automatically.

2 - Yes you do have the same chances of red and black, no matter what the previous outcome. But of course none of them will come in 1,000,000x red in a row. Its possible, but improbable.

3 - People do play 1,2,3,4,5,6. According to lottery statistics, over 10,000 people in the UK each week play those numbers. And why is it more unlikely? Each ball has the same chance of coming out. The odds of hitting any 6 numbers from a 49 number draw is jut over 14million.

4 - I talk about poker math as it is definitive.

5 - If I see 100 hands to the river in a row, I will hit a flush 6.4 times.

6 - If i hold 2 cards of a suit, and 2 more are on the flop, I will hit a flush 36% of the time generally. And this is entirely true. It might be 1% up or down over a life time, but not by a significant number.

7 - Technically you can miss every draw you have. But thats almost impossible too. Im not saying it IS impossible, as mathematically speaking there is a chance of that, just like there is a chance you are winning this arguament, but I would bet that I will hit my flush draw at least once in a life time from here on our. In fact, maybe twice!

Much love

AKAworceracs · #9 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 05:31 PM

haha as I bet that if I will see a 3 card flush straight or trips 8 times out of those same 100 hands

eejit101 · #10 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 05:42 PM

Way to answer back my man!

AKAworceracs · #11 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 05:46 PM

hahhahahahahahahaha

AKAworceracs · #12 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 05:50 PM

Im going to discuss why the montey hall problem is BS... an Illusion next

eejit101 · #13 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 05:54 PM

Are you scarecrow?

AKAworceracs · #14 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 05:56 PM

I am but a mirrored Image of my former self, yet I hear only echos

eejit101 · #15 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 05:57 PM

I honestly only just noticed it was backwards. Im a fool.

And dude, dont argue with me over maths. Ill win. Sucka!

AKAworceracs · #16 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 06:02 PM

most the stuff i say on here is complete BS i make up off the top off my head, then argue it based on what others say. lol

CBG · #17 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 06:19 PM

The UK does things weird.

Here in the real world, we have automatic shufflers, but we use them properly.

We have two shoes of 6-decks. One set is shuffled with a card shuffler while the other is in play.

When the shoe is over, they put the newly shuffled shoe play and put the old shoe into the shuffler.

We use the shufflers strictly so players don't have to wait for the dealers to shuffle the cards by hand.

We use these for all games (blackjack, Pai Gow, Hold'em, etc..).

I think that's where Eejit101 was getting lost...

AKAworceracs · #18 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 06:25 PM

oh he meants like continous shufflers... wtf? who would even play that?... here they just make the stakes so ridicoulos u cant win ... like 10 min / 1000 max ... they will have 1 5$ table open but u cant get on it cuz there is such a crowd

the continous thing... they just have virtual BJ set up 5$ min ... and its a 5 seat computer game, like you r playing freaking dance dance revolution.. it reshuffles after every hand

CBG · #19 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by AKAworceracs

oh he meants like continous shufflers... wtf? who would even play that?... here they just make the stakes so ridicoulos u cant win ... like 10 min / 1000 max ... they will have 1 5$ table open but u cant get on it cuz there is such a crowd

the continous thing... they just have virtual BJ set up 5$ min ... and its a 5 seat computer game, like you r playing freaking dance dance revolution.. it reshuffles after every hand

Ya. The UK is weird if they are using continuous shuffle for their standard BJ games (which it sounds like they are). No idea who would play that (unless you're playing online of course).

As for Harrah's STL, they definitely have a BJ crowd, but the last time I was down there I managed to find a seat and made a decent killing. I played Pai Gow on that trip too and you guys have a slightly different variation than the one I was used to playing around here and everyone looked at me like I was an idiot for asking about the slightly different rules.

I think the best way to describe Harrah's St. Louis is that they have unbelievably amazing staff, but for the most part, most of their patrons are complete dicks!

eejit101 · #20 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 10:39 PM

we are allowed to say dicks? **** yeah.

And yes we have continuous shufflers. And its still the same game.

Perfect pairs ftw

AKAworceracs · #21 (**permalink**) 12-23-2011, 10:41 PM

lol, the poker guys are cool, but alot of the rich regulars that play high limit and high dollar slots are A-holes ... more so at Ameristar than harrahs ... I never played pia gow, but I have had people buy me beer for rolling well on craps, and the 5$ BJ 3, people talk to me and cheer, slap hands etc...

CBG · #22 (**permalink**) 12-24-2011, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by AKAworceracs

lol, the poker guys are cool, but alot of the rich regulars that play high limit and high dollar slots are A-holes ... more so at Ameristar than harrahs ... I never played pia gow, but I have had people buy me beer for rolling well on craps, and the 5$ BJ 3, people talk to me and cheer, slap hands etc...

On our trips down there we've run into some real jerks all over the place. Not sure if we attract trouble or what the deal is! It's people of all ages too; both male and female!

That just shows you how amazing their staff is because it's still my favorite Harrah's property!